1. 轉移目標 2011-08-26 10:51:43 |
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人總有逃避現實的傾向,製造出所謂地產霸權的假想敵人,作為打倒的目標,便可將以生活不如意的事,歸咎於不是自已的問題,心裏便好過一點! |
2. younggrandma 2011-08-26 11:21:17 |
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I still believe that to be a landlord is better than to be someone in the waiting list of the government's housing. Blessed to those who has invested in properties whether for own use or for rent. Those who have not invested must have some reasons. Either they missed their chances or they were too scared to buy one. |
3. hellowai 2011-08-26 11:58:18 |
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why always repeats the content |
4. 80後銀行從業員 2011-08-26 12:42:35 |
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翻開歷史, 中國乃至全世界都是為著爭奪土地發動戰爭....幾乎所有朝代都如是. 時至今日, 雖然沒有戰事...但本質沒有變, 人類(尤其是中國人)對土地依然有著強烈的偏好, 只是換成了用金錢而不是武力奪得. 為什麼呢?因為擁有地盤就是強者的證明, 誰人想一輩子寄人籬下, 看業主面色做人, 幫業主供樓呢...這班潛在買家的置業心一日不滅, 市場總會有一定的購買力. |
5. hellowei 2011-08-26 12:45:51 |
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你要repeat多幾次先扥倒個樓市! |
6. DT 2011-08-26 13:44:22 |
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Is it coincidence? While investors await for Ben Bernanke's key policy speech at Jackson Hole tonight, on the other hand, Buffett gives $5B vote of confidence to Bank of America. Bank of America is not an investment bank, the big piece is mortgage loans. Looking back, Ben Bernanke announced to remain the interest rate unchanged till mid of 2013. Why? He understands that QE3 doesn't work to pick up the economy. The Obama administration is considering further actions to strengthen the housing market, but the bar is high: plans must help a broad swath of homeowners, stimulate the economy and cost next to nothing. What is the solution? Refinancing. A wave of refinancing could be a strong stimulus to the economy, because it would lower consumers’ mortgage bills right away and allow them to spend elsewhere. What is the impact? The great property bubble may be blowing. Believe it or not? |
7. 小李老闆 2011-08-26 14:01:57 |
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當年二十出頭努力工作為生活為未來人哋覺得辛苦我以經係後面等代 人哋一走開我即時找機會上 過程非常辛苦 今天四+出頭有個非常幸福家庭 有樓收租 全部自己出力找回來 現看這班哥哥仔姐姐仔話樓好貴 係好貴 但都有人買 買嗰班人可能而家做到隻狗咁 你哋覺得社會欠你哋 看看你哋什樣做人 未讀完書就話要呢樣又話地產什樣又話申請公屋 做更嘢嗰班就話辛苦完全覺得辛苦係無謂 可能有想過力增上游但從無做好過 希望時下嗰班人比個心出來工作 努力向上 吳係個樓市好平你哋又話無錢 比個心出來哪 吳好成日叫人哋個口号 人哋叫你個口号先對得住自己 |
8. 內幕共賞 2011-08-26 14:36:22 |
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7. 睇唔過眼2011-08-25 18:34:59 | | 我朋友識得一個姓蘇嘅記者佬。呢個姓蘇嘅年零前曾經話俾我嘅朋友聽,由於王文彦得罪佢,佢就時時用唔同嘅匿名同埋寫法喺網上特別係呢個留言版砌王生生豬肉嚟破壞佢嘅名譽。朋友覺察到當呢個姓蘇嘅記者佬講到佢嘅得意傑作時,面有得色。 作為王生嘅長期讀者,我耐唔耐都睇到一啲無厘頭嘅人用唔同嘅匿名喺呢度惡意抹黑王生。 睇到嗰幾個咩嘢「honest」、「人一個」同埋「70後」好有組織默契咁攻擊王生,我就諗番起我朋友以前嗰番話,不吐不快。 | 11. 大山2011-08-25 23:50:13 | | 睇唔過眼,佢哋梗係有組織默契啦,「honest」、「人一個」、「正常說得好」同埋「70後」根本都係相同一個人。 | 12. 內幕2011-08-26 11:37:12 | | 樓上嘅睇唔過眼,你講嗰個姓蘇嘅老記叫乜名呀?聽講有個蘇XX嘅老記,先後用咗幾個 唔同嘅筆名為科XX資訊網、MXX網同埋地產XX網寫咗幾個專欄。其中一個筆名就係 「劉XX」。唔知你所講嗰個姓蘇嘅老記係唔係就係蘇XX? | |
9. 人一個 2011-08-26 14:59:51 |
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我係獨立身份, 並無用不同o既名出post, 請不要枉作小人 君子坦蕩蕩, 小人長戚戚, 我預左俾佢地班人刪除留言, 不過無所謂, 我唔會再睇王文彥先生的文章了, 反正道不同不相為謀, 而且有咁多網管出黎護駕, 王文彥先生都算係咁喇 我都覺得奇怪, 點解o個邊咁少留言, 而哩邊就每篇都留言不斷, 大家自由發表言論, 終於明白! |
10. 湯文亮 2011-08-26 15:41:28 |
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各位, 在過去一星期,網站有非常多留言,亦非常有建設性,水準之高,令我目瞪口呆。大家公開討論,甚至有時大家互相解決問題,我相信其他網站是很少有這種情況。為此,我當竭盡所能,寫多一些好文章。當然,大家理念未必相同,我亦非常歡迎賜教。除非有涉及私隱,粗言穢語,否則,絕不刪除。 有消息指政府亦非常留意這個網站,尤其是各位回應,故此希望大家各抒己見,盡情發言、討論。多謝! |
11. 無奈 2011-08-26 15:59:08 |
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Hi DT, How could that be possible? The US housing market is huge and the the write off proccessing is so complicate that takes ages to go through.Anyway if that happens, another stronger bubble wave will come. |
12. 98XS 2011-08-26 16:05:46 |
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0分重作 |
13. 80後銀行從業員 2011-08-26 16:17:05 |
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To DT: Buffett's BofA deal is actually a packaged deal with 50K shares of perpetual preferred stocks with liquidaton value of USD100,000.- each (here comes the USD5Bn) yielding 6% p.a. perpetually...what's more, it embedded a call option to buy 700M common shares at strike price of USD7.14. For information, last night BofA surged to USD7.65 per share (+9.4%) in a single day. So the option has been in-the-money already. 用簡單的話說, 不是巴菲特有眼光, 而是他僅僅用名氣便可以得到凡人沒法得到的絕世好deal... |
14. ABC君 2011-08-26 16:37:22 |
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各位留意今晚伯南克的新招,應對後市有些啟發。 王文彥時常口不對心,文筆是不錯,亦不知是心腸不好,或是真的一直看錯市。因他的言論而坐失良機者不計其數。老施老猫燒鬚勇於認錯,但王文彥卻沒有此等修為。發財而不立品,言何立德,立功? 真枉為地產界先輩! 博士定調,施永青為地產界泰山,黃建業地產界為北斗,而王文彥根本不入流。 |
15. 60 2011-08-26 17:02:00 |
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14.ABC君,你所言絕對赞同,做人做事一样,知错即改,唔好靠删除异己唔同見解言論,怕乜摆擂台!!! |
16. 明燈 2011-08-26 17:51:45 |
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湯博士,油街之成交價是否意味各發展商對未來三年較保守看法呢? 或根本市場上估價者不貼市,正如大輸一樣,一味靠估呢? 請賜教小弟。 |
17. 過路 2011-08-26 19:33:20 |
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湯先生大好友,王先生大淡友,對樓市悲觀時看湯先生文章可以精神一振,對樓市樂觀時看王先生文章可以平服下。兩位先生文章可以話各自精彩。 |
18. 正苦觀員 2011-08-26 19:47:25 |
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『有消息指政府亦非常留意這個網站,尤其是各位回應』 政府信你就大檸樂,遲早暴動,而你呢隻豬就會俾人拎去劏嚟祭旗 |
19. mini 2011-08-26 20:08:44 |
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That is true in the economic terms. At the moment, investing in the real estates in Hong Kong is very poor or noisy. It is not fair to the investors or / concerned companies who use the necessary capitals at their risks to create jobs and to pay much taxes to the society. For the unforeseeable in future, we do keep at least 2 properties in life, one for living and another for medical compensations for retirement partly because of aging problem and unstable currencies around the world. Maybe, one day or a long period we have a near to zero interest in banks and at the same period we need to face a bad inflation due to poor exchange rates of our dollar. Love Hong Kong which has creative minds. We have common laws over 150 years and many hardworking people. In China, there is around 9.6 million square km in land on which 1350 million are living, in which about 600 million people are heading toward the urbanization. It could be another 30 years for development. Why not in America with the similar land area for about 310 million population, the professionals said that if there is NO expectations in future, human beings will NOT work. Over 10000 airports there and overdeveloped railways and roadways, plus a sky-high debt of over ten trillion dollars. If this is the case, think about how to get the funds to maintain their infrastructures/buildings and living on gasoline/petrol just $3.0 a gallon ( approx. one half of hk) . The whole nation has been playing a debt game by switching different terms of bonds/treasuries or by paying debts to cover another debts, non-stop playing with their lenders, including domestic and overseas. It has been a game of cash flows in the globe over 40 years... Good Luck to Hong Kong ! |
20. 地產霸權 2011-08-26 20:48:18 |
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『地產霸權』一書是針對幾個大發展商利用政府的高地價政策,謀取暴利,再利用他們的財富,控制商户租金,超市貨品價格,公共交通收費 ...........。若博士不是書中所提及的便不算是地產霸權,對嗎?也不用將這頂帽子扣在自已的頭上,也不用怕給人打倒。再者博士離做地產霸權還有一段距離吧! 從事地產投資的人最多可以用炒家來形容,地產霸權一詞對他們來說完全不適用。 最不幸的是買樓自住希望可以對抗通脹、高租金的小業主,他們是政府高地價政策和地產霸權的犧牲品。還好,樓價的升跌對他們的影響不大,最受影響的是那些要向銀行借貸的炒家。 |
21. 暴風兩的來臨 2011-08-26 21:17:22 |
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我有一位從事股票買賣的朋友,他說不怕股票升跌,最重要是要有成交,最怕個市橫行。 暴風雨來臨之前,通常都是非寧靜,股市、樓市也不例外,問題是很多時在不知不覺,毫無準備下發生的。希望各位要做好預防措施。 |
22. 無奈 2011-08-26 22:47:04 |
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金毛獅王有一招叫做七傷權,威力之強可用擋我者死來形容,但最大的敗筆是這一招傷人先傷自己。各大發展商可肥了,不用急、不用排隊、人人有份,永不落空,大家估估下一次花落誰家? |
23. agree (1) 2011-08-26 23:05:15 |
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agree (1), "people tend to believe what they want to believe." |
24. mini 2011-08-26 23:11:12 |
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Briefly speaking before 1990s, we have major and famous property developers/owners under the hands of British people , such as Jardine and Swire Groups /Holdings, etc. Now, we have more real estate firms from Chinese in Hong Kong and Mainland, the local retail shops can go to anywhere for doing their businesses, including in the private and public places. Try to see these retailers in the Links in the public estates & MTR's malls and stations by our government, in the business areas by british holdings, in the markets with air-conditioning by our government as well. In the long term, they do have to face fierce competition in terms of supply and demand, good management , and/or in view of shopping online in future. e.g. telecommunications fees in Hong Kong. |
25. 地產霸權排名榜 2011-08-26 23:23:32 |
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上市公司 市值 (億元) 以8/26 收市價計算 1. 新鴻基地產 2686 2. 長江實業 2400 3. 港鐵公司 1487 4.九龍倉集團 1430 5. 恆隆地產 1241 6. 恆基地產 1052 7. 太古股份公司A 922 8. 信和置業 583 9. 新世界發展 373 不要忘記特區政府才是最大的地產霸權,因為它擁有無限市值的土地。 |
26. AIA 2011-08-27 00:12:28 |
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回暴風兩的來臨:你用股票的思維想樓市,會不會簡單事情複雜化呢?其實業主們都很簡單,供得起米繼續供羅,此終中國人都想有自已的安樂窩,有餘錢米買多幾層樓收租羅,起碼退休後能自給自足,你說有什麼投資可以穩賺每月0.4%(年息有4.8),還有把物業變為美金,我們可以用來投資什麼地方,如果樓價跌,我都想買多層 |
27. 炒家 2011-08-27 00:13:27 |
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香港地除了炒樓,根本就冇其他事情好做,炒樓絕對係最有錢途的職業,大陸13億人爭住入市,仲浪費時間爭論,奉勸香港市民不要再做無謂的工作,投身炒樓事業方為上策。 |
28. 想炒樓,冇咁易! 2011-08-27 00:46:42 |
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有冇本事揾首期呀!有冇供樓能力呀! 有冇勤力過呀!何德何能呀!... 去炒股做点心吧!轉身快,賺錢易,唔會負資產,不用交物業稅. |
29. 爆料 2011-08-27 02:51:33 |
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地產霸權一書,只係將d報紙剪埋,然後譯英文,根文成本書邏輯同文句不用,不過呃到鬼佬,然後改番個起哄書名,又呃埋d冇腦香港讀者. 而該書作者只係一個繙繹,乜野都唔知,早年炒西半山一層樓,升左些少,急急賣樓,然移民,番到hk買唔番,就憎到地產商死一死,家下在加拿大差不多要攞救濟,d勻本書賣得,得番d稿費幫補下生活.... 曾問過傻更更買左本書既朋友,十個有九個話根本睇唔晒本書,皆因內容雜亂無章,係個d廢青同政棍,至會當執到寶,不過佢地九成九都冇睇晒本書,只係貪方便,用地產霸權個名瓜瓜嘈 |
30. kc 2011-08-27 05:42:51 |
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博士, 如果你能解釋到今時今日香港的貧富差距及居住環境惡劣不是由地產商所做成我會相信你不是講廢話, 不是在替地產商說話. 如果你再能以今日年青人的身份(不是站於昨日的年青人立場), 寫對香港的感受而得到共嗚者我佩服你, 你德高望重. 我生在香港, 在香港長大, 经歷了70多年, 我好討壓你的文章 |
31. 假象 2011-08-27 10:22:11 |
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回30樓,要博士答你,不如你先證明香港的貧富差距及居住環境惡劣是由地產商所做成,要有數據及理據喎. 正如科大經濟教授雷鼎鳴話齋,說香港貧富縣殊的人,永不將香港的低稅和低福利計入,至於居住環境惡劣,又點解咁人想來香港? 好似1樓話齋,人解決不少自身問題,就鍾自製假想敵,香港最好就搵發商啦.尤其在香港,鬧人冇成本,又唔使坐監. |
32. 幫kc上課 2011-08-27 10:45:33 |
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如果讀過基礎的邏輯同哲學,猶其係知識論,就知道要證明一件存在事相對容易,證明不存在卻極難,甚至是不可能,較可能之道,只是將所證明存在事情的證據駁倒,間接推番證明其存在之虛惘而已. 所以呢,kc應該先拿出證明所謂地產霸權的證據,來讓人駁倒你,而不是自已思想懶隋,叫人家證明可能根本不存在的地產霸權. 以上也是香港實施普通法的精神,舉證在控方,不是辯方找證據,相反則是大陸法,容易做成冤假錯案.不少人說捍衛自由,民主,為民請命,只懂叫口號,卻連一些基礎知識都搞不清楚. kc,依家免費幫你上課,如虛心受教,得到益處,請食飯就唔不用了,咁鐘意幫人,捐下錢啦.你知唔知,湯博士間紀惠集團,一年捐幾多錢?廖太做善事,一向低調,如果你知道數目,隨時嚇死你. |
33. 王先生 2011-08-27 11:44:48 |
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有人揾萬幾銀個月但幾層樓收租。 但都有專業人士都做緊無殼蝸牛。 最主要嘅分別係做人有無積極思想。 在香港無積極思想係好難做倒業主。 當你有積極思想嗰陣,你就自然揾倒方法去上車。 當然你要量力而為,做嘢一步一步黎-----從一房到兩房、從大西北到市區、從單幢樓到大型屋邨、從乜都無嘅舊樓到泳池都幾個嘅豪宅,每月供樓支出控制在4成樓下,自住當交租,咁就理他樓價升跌! |
34. 產霸® 2011-08-27 13:42:24 |
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產霸® Copyright 2011 – 全名地產霸權 (吾係日本名) 首先, 我叫做產霸或者洋名PH (Property Hegemony) , 地產霸權太長, 吾夠chok ! 我要澄清, 我不是來自Ms Poon, 更加5系來自C/S/H記, 遲下我會將我的身細公開 PH |
35. mini 2011-08-27 14:36:19 |
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There are many wise people in Hong Kong. Quite often the local residents do their shopping, they would consider the environment such as convenience, hygiene,comfort,etc., varieties, performances and price tabs of products/services, sales manners/attitudes, individual needs... Every resident & visitor can have a free access to the places that they want to spend their time for various purposes... Hope to see some statistics on the salesable areas for shopping in Hong Kong. It should include the private and the public ones for selling at indoor & stands on the streets, sales volume of online shopping as well. |
36. mini 2011-08-27 15:04:35 |
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There are two options for the economy in the near term: 1.Three Lows. low growth or low investing, low interest rates to buy time, and low carbon living/lower needs for existing; or 2.Three Highs. high unemployment index, high inflation rates,high political risks/stresses. Do we want a lastest hope/dream like americans who may live in the future traps and/or a house under water ??? |
37. KCC 2011-08-27 16:58:50 |
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他們只是做地產行業生意,合法經營,願買願賣,有納稅,這是什麼霸權,那做訊是否叫訊霸權,還有飲食霸權呀,有些人不斷取政府支出資源,醫療,房屋,綜緩,這些人才是香的良心嗎?別忘記那些資源部份也是來自地產行業,囉緊著數,還要鬧人,這才是良心霸權. |
38. 廖氏 2011-08-27 20:39:13 |
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湯生在雜誌講得很對,最緊要嫁個有錢人,有錢人打本,買中變專家,輸錢都唔駛怕! |
39. 向饭民说不 2011-08-27 21:36:24 |
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那些批评博士的poor guy,点解吾敢回答博士的问题, 從來沒有一個說後母的兩個小女兒,發奮圖強,在大女兒離家後,他們兼負起養家的重擔,情況一如今日整天叫「打倒地產霸權」的人,當沒有人投資地產,香港的財政緊拙,他們不但不為全香港出力,只會依然蝸居在「公屋」,依然申領綜緩,等待另一個行業出頭,再打倒他們。 饭民poor guy,现在闹地产霸权最有力的就是那些得益以地产霸权的公屋户和綜緩户。这批人四肢发达,头脑简单。只会眼红。全部都是垃圾,人渣。 |
40. 向饭民说不 2011-08-27 21:42:22 |
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03年,当地产霸权消失的时候,班公屋户和綜緩户肯吾肯负责任呢?肯不肯减少福利,和交多一点税呢?问题是否的。老董要改变高地价政策,但是班poor guy 政客有无比机会他呢? 今日班poor guy竟然跑出来叫地产霸权。人渣中的人渣。 |
41. MCC 2011-08-27 21:47:02 |
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蘋果公司(AAPL)巿值3556億美元!市值之大,全球數一數二。坐地鐵十個人有八個人用IPhone! iPhone 明顯食水很深。我們用家又沒有選擇。好似俾人用槍指住個頭就買咗!伊家仲要被勾魂般每天留意iphone5 的消息。這是不折不扣的蘋果霸權。 |
42. 太傅 2011-08-28 15:54:27 |
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http://www.hket.com/store/IMAGE/HKET/2011/201105/20110517/HKET20110517LA01ATL.jpg 樓價 vs 青年月入中位數
http://www.hket.com/store/IMAGE/HKET/2011/201101/20110125/HKET20110125AA01ATL.gif 全球最難負擔樓價城市排名
http://stock.appledaily.com/apple-images/apple-photos/apple/20110305/large/IMG0000119_B02.gif 全球十大樓價升幅最大城市
睜眼瞎子們認為樓價過高沒有問題, 我也懶得替人教仔
也許那些四十後, 五十後, 六十後生於八零年代 將會和現在的青年人一樣無能, 無助, 無奈
我也贊成有能者居之 我會盡力繼承先輩獅子山下精神, 接棒做香港新一代辦事人
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43. 笑死人 2011-08-28 16:25:49 |
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回42樓,如果你提供個3種數據有意思,就算沙士時樓價跌了七成,都會話貴,即係話近幾十年樓價,香港樓價從來冇合理過. 難道樓價要跌九成才合理? |
44. anggie T. 2011-08-28 17:18:42 |
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For No. 41) Sorry to tell you that both I myself & my husband do not have any "i" products, "i-pod" maybe that I don't even use. Cell phone's meant to be a communication tool, any cell phone that serves the above function can be used.(since I use my lap-top as internet service provider I do not need any i-service on cell-phones which I hate) If you can save all these, I'm sure you can buy yourself one more apartment very soon....... Indeed, we have five apartments, speculating the market.......next target island side.... |
45. AIA 2011-08-28 18:21:55 |
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回太傅:那請問香港樓價,有幾時係你所謂合理的,什麼是平,什麼叫貴?是不是拿綜緩都能買樓才叫平,是不是路邊的乞丐都能買樓叫平?以我認識的合理價格,是有人肯賣有人肯買,就叫合理.今日的價值比昨日的買價值高,就叫平.那你平貴和合理價格,是怎樣定出來的.報紙話乜你就信乜? |
46. 回43&45樓 2011-08-28 19:19:45 |
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沙士時樓價很抵買, 沒關係, 下次樓市調整期出現時我定能把握機會成為大家一份子
呵呵呵
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47. AIA 2011-08-28 19:38:46 |
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我初初都好似你禁諗,但現在想也不會想 |
48. 無奈 2011-08-28 19:56:27 |
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各位,樓價這東西,高和低真不好說呢,觀感純因人而異。你看政府出盡法寶,甚至賤賣土地,用香港人的錢去扭曲市場,用行政手段去壓抑市場;無錯,樓價是跌了,但只是微跌,指數由100點跌至99點餘,其間經歷了許多大大小小所謂外圍因素。買樓的人少了,但租樓的人更加多了,租金唯有上升,因為需求住屋的因素不但沒有減少,而是加強了,氣球擠壓原理可以解釋這一點。(如果你有樓放租,每天不接幾個經紀電話才怪,我就深有體會了)。老實說,我也曾不斷地懷疑樓價上升的因素是否被誇大,令我想起雲先生和陳先生在爭論中雲先生提到「 當你的看法與市場相悖時, 請不要質疑市場, 錯的是你而不是市場.」時隔多月,事實證明這一說法正確。股評人論樓市我特別留意,他們犯了一個先天性錯誤,就是經常教人止賺位、止虧位,在他們的投資世界里,這種投機思想根深蒂固,每每反應在他們的樓市理論當中。物業與股票是兩個截然不同的市場;股票市場越來越似賭場,是虛擬的,物業市場是實在的;我三年前離開股市感覺上沒什麼不妥,但如果我無樓住就非常不妥,道理就是這麼簡單。 |
49. DT 2011-08-29 10:04:11 |
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To 無奈 Here is my interpretation of Ben Bernanke's speech. No QE3 or other QE = The market confirmed this is the right message. S&P 1050-1100 holds and Dow is Up. The Red could take more modest steps when necessary = It could eliminate interest payments on money that banks keep on deposit at the Fed, encouraging them to make loans instead. The Fed's September policy meeting will be extended to two days = The Fed has largely played its part and that the politicians need to step up their game Remember Professor Ben is the advocate of Great Moderation. Buffett bought BOA = confirmed the economy is recovery slowly From the above, I may see the slowly recovery of US property market coming soon. |
50. DT 2011-08-29 11:06:32 |
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To: 80後銀行從業員 I share you viewpoint. The smart Buffett always has to pick up the good timing to buy the right price of stock. From Salomon Brothers in 1987 to Goldman Sachs and GE in 2008, it proved he is right. Now Bank of America today, I think so. It is very difficult to buy the right price of stock at right time. |
51. 向飯民說不 2011-08-29 11:18:04 |
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政府要解决现在香港经济的左倾问题,必定要令中产在选民基础上占多数。现在政策只会让所谓的基层占的比例成为多数,所有政客只会牺牲中产,来迎合基层的需要。 现在香港的问题,是没有一个真正的右派政党,来抗衡左派势力。所有媒体包括TVB的电视剧和时事分析和政党都是左倾。 |
52. 向飯民說不 2011-08-29 11:38:09 |
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港英时期,政府是强势政府,实行强势的资本主义右倾政策,当时媒体倾向左派系合理的,因为政府统治需要有一个平衡。 但是回归之后,政府变成弱势政府,完全被左倾的政党和媒体牵着鼻子走。 |
53. 32樓的邏輯遊戲 2011-09-01 06:16:27 |
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30樓的語句好像是條件句,也看不出當中有認定或否定所帶條件的意味。邏輯上有何問題?請證明。另外,根據你的第一段︰要證明"地產霸權存在的證據不存在於30樓""極難,甚至是不可能"......弊了...... 你玩呢一套,可爭論的事多了。對不起,要嚴格證明此說似乎極不容易。邏輯系統的限制,你知多少?別輕易說你用的邏輯系統沒有問題,"錯誤不存在於你用的邏輯系統的推論""極難,甚至是不可能"被證明。 |
54. 六日 2011-09-01 11:27:50 |
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53樓,想了六日才想出了如此水平的回應,看來紅衛兵真的要再受教育 |
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