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1. O了 2012-03-29 10:59:12

多谢博士分享宝贵经验

2. Johhnny 2012-03-29 12:09:20

According to Inland Revenue Ordinance, profits arising from disposal of "capital" investments are NOT subject to Profits Tax.  In other words, HK does NOT charge capital gain tax.  To check whether the property transactions are of "capital" nature or not, Inalnd Revenue Department ("IRD") may refer to some UK cases and principles.  One of the famous important indicators are called "Six Badges of Trade, as below:

 

<1>  Length of Ownership

If you buy a property and sell it within shorter period (e.g. < 1 year), then IRD may deem this disposal to be "revenue" nature (i.e. not "capital" nature) and charge profits tax on gain on property disposal.  Per some tax experrts, IRD may charge profits tax if the period of holding property is < 3 years.

 

<2>  Frequency of similar transactions

If you frequently engage in property purchases and sales, it is hard to argue that these transactions are of "capital" nature.  It is becasue these property purchases and sales may be classified as your "trade" and "business.  IRD will not charge gains on capital investments.  However, IRD will charge gains / profits from trade and business.  If your property transactions are classied to be of "trade" and "business" nature, profits tax cannot be avoided.

 

黎汝遠 is very hard to argue that his transactions are of capital nature, as he is known as a frequent trader.

 

<3> Supplementary works on the property

Adding some alternations to property (e.g. decorations) may likely be deemed to be one indication of trading.

 

<4>  Circumstance responsible for disposal

The transaction will not be trading if the original intention was not resales but an unexpected subsequent event / emergency casued you to sell properties (e.g. immigration to other countries, medicial treatments).  If the property is purchased by a company, it is very important to prepare board minutes documenting the intention of property purchase.  This is an important evidence documenting your intention.

 

<5> Profit-seeking motive

If you originally have profit-sseking motive, it is hard to counter-argue.  If you know how to prepare documenations and find some unarguable excuses, it can help you argue against IRD. 

 

<6> Subject matters of transactions

If a property yields no income or no personal enjoyments, it may likely be classified as "trading" assets (not capital assets)

 

Before you purchase property for investment, if you can prepare your "evidence" with reference to the above factors in advance, the chance to win IRD may likely be higher.  However, please advise your professional consultants of how to prepare these documentations and evidence.  If I said too much, many experts would not be able to earn $$.

 

 

 

3. Johhnny 2012-03-29 12:15:34
Per Dr. Tong, many companies classifies properties as stock or property held for sale.  THis case is easy to attract IRD's challenges.  You have to classify the property be be "Investment Property".  If your company initially document in board minutes the intention to buy property for the purpose of  deriving rental yields, then this property will be classified as investment property in audited a/c.  This helps you aruge against IRD
4. 到底八萬五害而死了多少港人? 2012-03-29 12:16:34

真相大哥:

你花了不少時間以似是而非的data企圖為cy的85000解剖。其實將會是弄巧成拙,越描越黑。等有識之士直斥其非。我想你再辛苦些,再找找數據,告訴全港市民,到底八萬五害而死了多少港人?今天失業,明天銀主上門,妻離子散,茫茫蒼天,慾哭無淚,一生人辛苦了十多年,才有的一層樓,真是為樓辛苦為樓忙,最後又死在樓手上。到現在梁振英還死不認錯,最怕的是不認錯,還會再錯,你說到時又會死多少人?

2003沙市之後,樓價之所以愎生,其實是曾陰權,孫公出了無數招的結果,天憐香港,日本樓市二十年還未走出苦海,美國樓市不知還要幾多年?死者已矣,死不能復生。但錯過不可再錯,要吸取教訓。政策錯,付代價的卻是貧苦百姓,cy一樣住得豪爽、食得豪爽,家住山頂。這可能是為數不少的選委縱使在壓力下也不投票給他的原因。

cy一日未認錯,全港市民都只能活在恐懼的日子,惶恐不可終日

5. 小業主 2012-03-29 12:41:43
終於明白咩情況要比利得稅 ; 但如果我有兩層樓, 其中一間屋企人住, 之後賣左都要比稅 ?
6. 80's passerby 2012-03-29 13:06:32

Comprehensive and insightful !

Couple of markups:

1. To paragraph no. 4, relief of property tax can be claimed if the property is as well as for business use and chargeable under the Profit tax.  In such event, amount of Property tax can be set off for payment of Profit tax only.

2. Onus of proof rests on the taxpayer, whether chargeable to profit tax is a matter of fact and judged by IRD.

Welcome fellows to share comments and insights of tax matter !

 

7. Simple math 2012-03-29 13:10:51

To 真相 and ABC.

85000 is the cause of the property collapse. It is strictly supply and demand. We are talking is 85000 units per year and 425000 for 5 years. Would you know how buildings has to be built in one year? Let say 264 units for one building , we need to build 322 blocks of building. It would holds 297,500 persons (85000x3.5 perons/household). This would be more than the population in Tai Koo Shing. In addition to these, we still have the supply from the private sector of 15,000 units per year (which is normallly planed to be 23,000 per years.)

Hong Kong's population is growing at a rate of 1.5% - 2%. We will have an increase of population of 100,000 to 140,000 per year. With a density of 3.5, we need approx. 34,285 units (120000/ 3.5) With the 100,000/per year, the supply is close to three times  double its need. (2.98 times.)

How can the market not be collapsed? People and Investors buy or sell based on expectation. Who goes to buy when the market is expected to be falling? In addtition,  In Murply's Law, when things goes bad, everything goes bad. When we were at 2002, we have SARS in the 2003 for icing. Please check your calculation on supply and demand.

Furthermore, please also check what kind of capacity of the Hong Kong Government's work force can handle. Let say a project last three years, with the overlapping, the government work force need to handle 3 times its target units. ( if 85,000, it would be 255,000 units or 966 blocks on any given year.) 

To me, the government builds 25000 units/per units would be more than sufficient.

8. 小市民 2012-03-29 13:20:59
To 4:
97年樓市下跌的主因,並非8萬5,而係任志剛錯用高息(隔夜拆息曾一度抽高至280厘)打大鱷,事實證明高息是不能打擊炒家反被炒家利用在期指市場賺一大筆,試問有o羊人可以付如此高息供樓?那時是應該減息不是加息,他的錯誤決定卻要我們全香港業主去承擔,至今他仍欠全香港業主的一個道歉
9. PN 2012-03-29 15:36:26

Thanks Dr. Tong + Johnny.

Well noted.

 

10. 2011年開始 2012-03-29 17:24:43

TO: 8

當年供樓用P+,隔夜拆息1000厘都與供樓業主無關。

11. 2011年開始 2012-03-29 17:31:00
如果唔係任志剛一手買入藍籌股(今日的2800盈富)一手扯高拆息夾大鱷淡倉,香港當年必重傷。
12. Insider 2012-03-29 17:41:04
If more and more mainlander knows about the Property tax rule of Hong Kong. , more and more of them would buy property in here. As they have to pay very high property there, especially capital gain tax. Sometines, it is upto 60% of your gain. I see the growth of demand from mainlander will be continue.
13. 2011年開始 2012-03-29 17:50:14

當年打大鱷曾蔭權 及許仕仁都有份策劃。

14. 小市民 2012-03-29 18:06:53
to 10,11
我唔知你97年係邊度,當任志剛用高息打大鱷時,供樓利率升到12 ,試問有o羊樓有12厘回報??邊度搵錢去供12厘利息的按揭?好多人被迫濺賣物業係因為冇錢供樓,唔係8萬5!!!之後去買港股只係之前錯用高息打大鱷的後知後覺,如果唔係索羅絲係俄羅斯輸左錢,你估港府o甘易贏
15. 2011年開始 2012-03-29 18:09:20
策劃及執行85000的CY唔使負責任,打大鱷有功的要道歉???????????????????????
16. 小市民 2012-03-29 18:15:19
竟然說得出"隔夜拆息1000厘都與供樓業主無關"這些歪理

你知唔知銀行就是看拆息去定P幾多厘
17. 2011年開始 2012-03-29 18:23:05

最歪莫過于任志剛要食85000只死貓

18. 2011年開始 2012-03-29 18:26:59
銀行按拆息去決定P息,何當年P唔係300厘而係12厘?銀行開倉派米?
19. 那些年 2012-03-29 18:30:10

真懷念當年政府打大鱷既勇猛,強悍及智慧,當年政府班底,竟然被班政棍逐一拉下馬,反觀今日仍然在垃圾會廢話連編既所謂問責官員同班政棍玩假人權遊戲,搞什麼賓賓居港權,仲要打多幾個回合呃法緩,真係厚顏無恥!萬一賓賓當港人計,咁最低工資,公屋,綜緩樣樣計,呢個無底深潭仲慘過85000呀!!

香港人,香港良心,照顧返香港人先啦!!

果個低能政府有無危機感架!!仲同班賊黨玩法治!!

20. Hongkong People 2012-03-29 21:43:22

To 小市民,

Long before 打大鱷 the mortgage rate was P+ 2% or 3% and the P was around 8% or 8.5%.  So, the effective mortgage rate was around 10.5% to 11%.  And level of P was followed more on US Feb rate.   With the action of 打大鱷, though the Hibor fluctuated to unbelievably high level, but it only maintained just about a week and it slowly went back to normal.  And during that period, prime rate stayed at the same level.  And mortgage rate didn't change by action of  打大鱷.  So, it had nothing to do with the downfall of HK property market.

What No. 10 said was correct.  We need to thank Mr. Yan, Donald Tsang and Mr. Hui for taking this bold, unorthodox and swift action to curb Sorros' speculative actions.  Otherwise, HK would be dried up by them.

21. Hongkong People 2012-03-29 21:44:23
To No. 19,

Agree with your point of view.

22. 小人物 2012-03-29 21:51:27
可惜許前司長被老廉請去飲咖啡了 新地太子猶如玄武門之變的李世民一掃奸佞. 彼重新登基之日, 就是新地貞觀盛世之時...嗎?
23. M 2012-03-30 06:09:19

 

请问亮爷。

如果长期只买不卖。持有几十个单位的物业只出租,几十年期的话。是否用一间有限公司HOLD住比用个人名更易合理地小交些税呢 ?

24. 亮劍----王先生 2012-03-30 10:02:43

TO--M

用有限公司持有物業,你首先要俾成立公司嘅費用;再每年續商業登記;仲要揾會計師及公司秘書做數、周年申報及報稅。

因為公司持有物業通常被政府視為投資,銀行會自動收緊按揭條件,例如按揭成數較用私人名低,所付利息會較高,比較適合嗰啲有專業知識及資金雄厚嘅投資者,仲要係貴重物業先值得咁做。

當然有限公司可以用黎抵消唔少費用,例如利息支出、交際應酬、旅遊費用等,呢啲嘢會計師會俾倒意見你!

25. 亮劍----王先生 2012-03-30 10:15:14

而且普通用家唔喜歡同你要呢啲持有物業嘅公司,而如果單賣物業,咁淨低間公司會成為空殼,你都要揾會計師同你執手尾,咁又唔見一筆費用!

26. M 2012-03-30 10:50:05

致谢 24.25 亮剑-王生。 如果货多长抓的话。每年减费用后所交的税小了可抵回会计师楼等费用的。但如果卖出时公司要再交多次利得税而个人名HOLD像汤文亮先生所说可不用交利得税的话。那还是用个人名HOLD着数些啦。。

27. M 2012-03-30 10:55:03
to 24. 25  用公司名HOLD长抓还有一个好处是留给下一代不时不用交遗产税。
28. M 2012-03-30 11:03:56
请教 24。。25  亮剑-王先生。。为什么“仲要係貴重物業先值得咁做。”而HOLD普通的物业不值得呢 ?  多谢指教先。。。
29. 亮劍----王先生 2012-03-30 11:08:30
M----現在香港已經無左遺產稅呢樣嘢幾年,而如果你持有大量物業做長線投資收租,咁緊係成立有限公司着數啦,因為會計師樓都有「團購」制度,長期幫襯緊平啲,如果再多幾間收租物業,隨時請個有會計師資歷嘅員工幫手都仲得!
30. 亮劍----王先生 2012-03-30 11:38:51

低價物業用有限公司持有固定開支係 1 萬,但你只能節省稅務支出 1 萬,棧攪!

而高價物業用有限公司特有都係 1 萬銀固定支出,但識走位嘅會計師,會同你合法地省回數以十萬計嘅稅務負擔,答案呼之欲出!

31. 路人丙 2012-03-30 13:06:53
當時朱镕基指示任志剛打鱷, 曾蔭權香港. 現在很多香港人仍然知道事情的真相.有趣 : )
32. M 2012-03-30 13:22:11
严重多谢亮剑-王先生的指教 !
33. yk 2012-04-25 23:08:27

博士文中提及 "資產增值稅" 和 "單稅制" 兩個名詞。以小弟理解,香港奉行簡單稅務原則,並無 "資產增值稅 Capital gain tax or asset gain tax"。稅務局就樓宇買賣利潤徵稅,乃依據營運收入利潤原則所徵收之"利得稅Profit tax"。理解為如果一個菜販買賣菜蔬賺取利潤需要邀交利得稅,那麽一個炒家買賣物業賺取了的利潤為甚麽不要邀交利得稅呢?至於 "單稅制" 一詞,恕小弟才疏學淺,未能理解。如果一間公司持有上市公司的股票,上市公司在派息前已經邀交了一次利得稅。該公司收取的股息由於是營運收入,當然又要邀交利得稅。因此何來 "單稅制" 呢?

34. PETER PAKER 2012-05-24 17:51:13

Dividend income is exempted from profits tax under Inland Revenue Ordinance Section 26A. 

 

HK does not charge tax on capital gains.  If u do businesses, profits tax will be charged.  If IRD thinks u are doing trade on your property purchases and sales, profits tax cannot be avoided.  U need to clarify this distinction, although the concept is abstract.

35. 亮剑-王先生 2012-05-25 06:43:35
多谢 PETER PAKER 的指教 !
36. 南菜园 2013-09-29 19:19:45
汤博士  多谢呀,因为一直跟进读你的博客,我的物业从沙士时开始陆续投资一直到现在没有卖出。中途政府出招时曾经动摇不知如何是好,开始看你的博客,就决定持货不放。现在不但按揭成数越来越少,租金也越来越和美。一年前开始转向美国英国,还用成个月时间亲自考察一番,不知怎么的,还是决定在香港继续。最近看到LLC上升,脑子越加清晰。
37. 南菜园 2013-09-29 19:23:17
我现在投资的物业中,一半是用公司持有,一半是个人名。其实我一直也不能肯定究竟是用个人名还是公司好? 请博士赐教。